The social contract theory of democracy was I believe appropriately dispelled in Nozick's Anarchy, State, and Utopia.
I'm sure if you have libertarian, minimalist government leanings, then Nozick's work dispelled the social contract theory of democracy quite nicely. I don't find citing an unknown authority to "disprove" my arguments very helpful. It's a corollary argument to "proof by grad student".
I'm certainly not interested in arguing the benefits of alternate currencies, gold standards or fiat money here. I'm simply pointing out that we all recieve a lot of benifits from the taxes you pay, despite your unhappiness with the system.
And, I wasn't suggesting that you leave the country, I was pointing out that if you are unhappy with the system, you have options. Another option, is that you are free to participate in our tax supported democracy to change it by voting of participating politically.
Either way, you're not going to be forced to do either of those options at gunpoint. You do have that freedom. I grew up in Central America in the 80's. The term "being forced to do something at gunpoint" has different connotations for me than it must for you.
"I don't find citing an unknown authority to "disprove" my arguments very helpful. It's a corollary argument to "proof by grad student"."
With the clever exception that, unlike a grad student, Nozick's Anarchy, State, and Utopia is freely available from Amazon.com if you want to read the argument for yourself.
Some points just are too long to fit in a comment post. For example, sometimes people link to Paul Graham essays when pg makes a point they can't restate any better. The parent post is similarly "linking" to a published book.
> I grew up in Central America in the 80's. The term "being forced to do something at gunpoint" has different connotations for me than it must for you.
Try not paying your taxes and see how different it actually is. (Granted, our jails may be slightly better and the police are less likely to simply shoot you if you obey their orders.)
Yes, getting to vote is different from not getting to vote. We're talking about what happens to folks who disagree with the result, regardless of how it came about.
Granted, our jails may be slightly better and the police are less likely to simply shoot you if you obey their orders.
Or, being held at gunpoint to be sure that your paper work is in order (has happened to me).
Being held at gunpoint to be robbed by "freedom fighters" that the US gave weapons to while transporting a van load of elementary school supplies . (Happened to my brother)
Being help at gunpoint in the middle of a church service in rural/lawless countryside by an intoxicated gentleman who was upset by the religious tracts that were handed out by people in our group. (Happened to my father and I)
And, I can guarantee you that our jails are much, much better than what you would find in most countries of Central America and our police are much, much more honest.
My chances of getting arrested by police officers here might be pretty good if I willfully refused to pay taxes for years. But, that would be my choice, and I certainly know the risks that would entail. And, worst case scenario, I might spend some time in a minimum security prison.
It seems that your opinion of our government is rather low, and that's understandable, but these are dramatically different scenarios.
The question was whether taxes are taken at the point of a gun and whether one can opt out of the "social contract" without govt threatening and using force.
Yes, different places have different "social contracts", which results in police using force in different situations. Those differences don't mean that "social contracts" are voluntary in some places and not in others - they're all imposed by force.
Yes, the circumstances in which police will point guns at you vary.
I'm sure if you have libertarian, minimalist government leanings, then Nozick's work dispelled the social contract theory of democracy quite nicely. I don't find citing an unknown authority to "disprove" my arguments very helpful. It's a corollary argument to "proof by grad student".
I'm certainly not interested in arguing the benefits of alternate currencies, gold standards or fiat money here. I'm simply pointing out that we all recieve a lot of benifits from the taxes you pay, despite your unhappiness with the system.
And, I wasn't suggesting that you leave the country, I was pointing out that if you are unhappy with the system, you have options. Another option, is that you are free to participate in our tax supported democracy to change it by voting of participating politically.
Either way, you're not going to be forced to do either of those options at gunpoint. You do have that freedom. I grew up in Central America in the 80's. The term "being forced to do something at gunpoint" has different connotations for me than it must for you.
We'll have to agree to disagree.