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Working in information security, I see this far, far too often in support tickets from employees who are unable to get to a site because our proxy is blocking misconfigured certificates. Usually we like to reach out to the owner of the site and have them update their configuration, and it gets quite frustrating when we find an unresponsive organization. Having to bypass cert checking for a site on our end is a huge security risk, and defeats the purpose of even having an SSL cert.

Companies! Make sure your certs are all in order! There's no reason to send a page to your users over HTTPS if they can't trust the certificate. Canonical has been a long-time offender of this, with many of their pages sporting a certificate signed to canonical.com but being served by ubuntu.com.



> There's no reason to send a page to your users over HTTPS if they can't trust the certificate.

There can be. HTTPS still gives you encryption over the wire. It still protects against a passive eavesdropper, like a casual packet sniffer on a public wi-fi network. The whole certificate deal protects against a Mallory with power to intercept and spoof messages. Of course nobody on the public internet can be sure there isn't a Mallory in or at the edge of the user's ISP, but in plenty of intranet or otherwise controlled networking scenarios, HTTPS with certificates lacking a trust chain can be reasonable.


Valid points, but in effect what you're doing is training users to believe that HTTPS means trusted. What happens if your site is compromised? The users will see the same untrusted SSL warning that they're seeing if your certs aren't in order. You're giving them security for your site, but removing their security awareness. This hurts them, this hurts the Internet, and this could come back to hurt you.

Training users to click through messages that are completely valid warnings is just shitty behavior.


Right. MitM attacks and variants are a proper subset of the mischief that can be achieved with an unsecured connection. Among other things, it's routine that people (hi!) use self-signed certs for personal or temporary TLS sites. I'd be very annoyed to pass a basic-auth-protected https git url to someone for quick-and-mostly-secure read-only access and have their access be denied by a local proxy...


>I'd be very annoyed to... have their access be denied by a local proxy

Untrusted certificate chains is a valid security risk. If it annoys you that users are blocked from viewing your site because you haven't gone through the established and accepted practice of actually completing the SSL trust chain, that's not the local proxy's fault.

My number one concern is the integrity and security of my company's data. Your personal or temporary TLS site is much lower down that list, especially if you're serving up untrusted certificates and expecting that users will completely ignore the warnings that try to keep them from falling victim to the kinds of attacks SSL is meant to avoid.


Arrgh. Sorry, but this is an absolutely classic example of why "security professionals" get laughed at by engineers. This requirements analysis is just completely backwards.

In the example in question (which frankly isn't very interesting, I can come up with hundreds of scenarios like this) I have a git archive I need to share with someone on an ad-hoc basis. For whatever reason, I'd like to do it securely, so it needs authentication and encryption and shouldn't go on anyone else's site. So the obvious solution is to throw it up on a static webserver somewhere and use TLS (or use ssh, of course, but that's subject to exactly the same root-of-trust problem as a self-signed cert -- surely you disallow outbound ssh access too, right? right?).

Your fantasy world wants to pretend requirements like this don't exist, and that you can simply refuse to support this kind of transfer via fiat. But it's not the real world. In the real world, this is what people have to do. Unless you break their systems, in which case they'll work around your silly rules in even less secure ways.


To answer your question, yes outbound and inbound SSH is blocked except through our secure gateways. Every security organization at every company will have procedures in place for bypassing the official policy on an ad-hoc basis. There's always going to be a one-off situation that requires a different set of rules on a limited time basis, and there are many ways of dealing with these exceptions.

On a broad basis, though, untrusted certificates are blocked outright. I'm sure you can understand that for every one-to-one or one-to-few valid communications like your case, there are dozens or hundreds of one-to-many not-so-valid communications. SSL has certificate trust built in for a reason. Engineers may laugh at security professionals, but we're here for a reason. Even though we're directly at odds with each other in approach, our goal is the same. You want to help further the business by pushing new software. We want to further the business by making sure that software is secure. No one benefits from the new e-commerce solution if the business bank account is completely drained the day after the product launches.

I can come up with a hundred good reasons why I should be able to enter a store after business hours, pick up a few things, and leave (I left the money on the counter!), but for some reason businesses still lock their doors. Do you laugh at them for having completely backwards requirements?


It's true that there's always a procedure in place for bypassing the official policy as needed. However, it often comes down to a question of whether its faster to follow this procedure or to simply undermine the security. I've repeatedly seen people solve the problem of handling unsigned certificates by simply moving back to pure HTTP. This is a great security hole than the unsigned certs ever were, but it's perfectly valid with their security policy.

I can actually take your key analogy into true story territory. I worked at an office where a manager had to be gone for a month. He had the only key and the policy to get a new key wouldn't get one to us for weeks. It was also against policy for him to give the key to someone else while he was gone. The solution was to simply leave all the doors unlocked while he was gone.

I understand the need for security. I understand that security is your job and that you don't want to compromise for mediocre security. However, when you won't compromise, we don't get great security. We get no security.


Completely understood. I can't speak for other companies, but mine has a very strict policy and also many ways to accommodate exceptions to this policy provided the employee has a valid reason for needing an exception.

I agree that strict policies with no recourse for exceptions is a bad thing. I don't know of anyone who would stand up under that kind draconian stance.


Every time a lazy and narrow-minded admin causes a browser user to click through a certificate error to access a site, God kills a RAID array.




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