> I've thought of suicide. Not "seriously," but it's crossed my mind.

If it happens again, get help. I'm quite serious.

I started seeing a therapist recently, to address the issues that lead to my depression. If things go south on me again, I have someone to talk to. Kind of like having a lawyer on retainer.

Thank you for your compassion.

It's not your job to give this sort of advice to people here. It's not some sort of mental disfigurement to think about these things you know. He and everyone else has the right to explore and experience unhappiness. And anyway, by fixating on a peripheral detail of his post you derail the conversation and force him into a rather supplicatory posture. Not cool.

There's a difference between unhappiness and depression.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I fail to see the relevance. The real issue here I would say is that you seem to have worked yourself up into a bit of a soul-saving frenzy, but your efforts are misplaced and frankly not appreciated. You seem not to realise that Hackernews is by and large a community of smart, stable, motivated and successful people, rather than a casualty ward for self-imploding depressives.

I would suggest you shift your efforts to a forum where people are actually starkly discussing hopelessness and self-destruction, rather than just briefly mentioning completely normal moments of weakness, and might even appreciate your help. For example, http://boards.4chan.org/r9k/. Enjoy.

> The real issue here I would say is that you seem to have worked yourself up into a bit of a soul-saving frenzy,

It's graceless of me. Oh noes, I might seem like a wanker who wants to help people.

> but your efforts are misplaced and frankly not appreciated.

By you.

> I would suggest you shift your efforts to a forum where people are actually starkly discussing hopelessness and self-destruction, rather than just briefly mentioning completely normal moments of weakness, and might even appreciate your help.

Honestly?

I'm not strong enough to do that. I'm just not. Soul-saving frenzies are as good as it gets for me.

You seem pretty upset. I think you should try and relax. Take a break from the computer. Go get some fresh air. I'm sorry if I pushed your buttons but I do think you are over-reacting. Nobody on Hackernews is going to hurt themselves any time soon, okay?

Given the context of this discussion that's insensitive and very presumptive. It's you that needs to step away from the computer.

Your posts in this thread -- especially the one above -- are not productive. You should take your own advice and sit this one out.

The guy replied to thank him, so you would appear to be completely off base.

Some of the first sensible advice I've read in this thread. I'm slightly disgusted by the sheer quantity of comments on how suicide can be "right" and how he was "pushed into it".

Suicide is never, never the answer, it can just seem like it sometimes when you are very, very low.

I've certainly had periods when I felt suicide was the answer.

Basically depression so completely fucks with your head that it seems like the only option left.

Not: "this seems like a great idea".

But rather: "this is the only thing left to do".

And it's not true.

"Suicide is never, never the answer, it can just seem like it sometimes when you are very, very low."

How about when someone is facing a terminal disease in constant pain with no prospect for improvement? My opinion is that someone in that condition should have that choice.

People usually call it "euthanasia" in such a case.

I think it's worth noting that depression and terminal illnesses are different cases. Euthanasia advocates emphasise the difference. See for example the legislative system that was passed in the NT in 1995:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_the_Terminally_Ill_Ac...

Right, Euthanasia is a different subject and completely out of scope here. Was just getting pretty sick of the apparent defence of suicide as a good move in this case, and "blaming" various people/organisations for causing it.

Perfectly possible to think about it but never act. I don't think there's been a day in my life in which I haven't contemplated the ramifications of offing myself.

Each and every time, I reach the same conclusion - it would be pointless. Null isn't a value, so I'd rather strive for happiness, even if my mood usually lurks around -1.

I don't mean to seem rude, but please, seek help. This doesn't sound like a healthy way to think and feel.

I value my freedom and clarity of mind far more than I do some subjective "happiness", induced by drugs or lengthy stays in facilities, as is the normal treatment for depressive disorders in the UK.

The system is not there to help, it's a kafkaesque self-sustaining bureaucracy.

I do agree that suicidal thoughts aren't altogether healthy, but I'd also argue that blithely wandering through life without the merest shred of existential doubt is equally unhealthy.

Ah yes, I remember this. I thought the way you do. I don't need the pills. Depression has taught me deep this and profound that.

Well let me tell you something.

It's bullshit.

That there might be a difference between 'objective' and 'subjective' happiness is triply-silly Cartesian dualist bullshit. You are absolutely embedded in the world, your happiness is not an abstract value that floats around on its own. And you won't be institutionalised for presenting with depression. The Kafkaesque bureaucracy was dismantled decades ago.

Ultimately, I can't help you. In fact, by arguing, I cause you to harden your position. I'm hurting you.

There is no more fuss in getting help for your brain acting up than getting help for having a dysfunctional pancreas or high blood pressure.

The only difference is that the symptoms are the sensors, that's all.

Let's agree to stop here.

Okay, now you are just embarrassing yourself.

That's a very mean thing to say and not at all appropriate in this thread.

As odd as it sounds, I'm happy with the status quo. Frequently miserable, but content with that misery, as I've learned to use it productively.

My madness is both my undoing, and my doing. I would not have quit a highly paid job to strike out on my own and grow a successful business, were I not terminally malcontent. I would not strive as I do to improve both my lot and that of others, were it not for the fact that I always have a gnawing sense of "this could be better".

Either way, don't worry for my sake - while I may ideate suicide, I also ideate being an old man with crazy eyebrows. I don't think I'd class myself as clinically depressed, rather overly empathic and terminally frustrated at the human condition.

Glad you found the help you needed, and that it works for you.

Thanks.

I can definitely relate to some of this. Depression so profoundly altered the course of my life that I basically can't imagine what would have happened without it. Some of those consequences are really good and they make me happy.

I wish you every good fortune.

I don't want to start an argument either, but for the sake of other people. This is a common view about psych medication, if only drugs would be able to fuzz your mind and give you happiness reliably :) I have been diagnosed with bipolar after an intense psychotic and manic break, and have been on medication ever since. To me, it feels like I finally have a stable basis to actually enjoy my freedom, and think clearly. It is a complete contrast to what was before. I don't feel less sharp, but I feel less need to stick my mental blade into everything that shows up. Also I feel happier, and that makes me use and enjoy freedom and mind that much more.

My experiences with the psychiatric system have been extremely positive, even in a small town like the one I live. The system is actually so unbureaucratic that I never received a single bill for all the help I got (except for the medication of course).

Normal treatment for depression in the UK should be short courses of CBT; or short courses of CBT combined with an SSRI / SNRI.

Or, for something more persistent it might involve community psychotherapy and medication.

"lengthy" stays in hospital should be unusual for depressive illness, unless it's major depression, where the illness has been severely affecting the person's day to day life for some time.

If you have (or suspect you have) depression, you are lucky to live in the UK, because at least you do not need to worry about being denied health insurance because of a previous diagnosis.

He has a point, though. It's pretty conservative to say "get help" for every thought about suicide. I think there's a difference between thinking about doing it or, say, wondering what death is like or whether you'd have the stones to go through with it. Honestly, I wonder what death is like a lot.

That being said, I tend to agree with you to be more conservative, but I've had similar thoughts as the guy you're replying to and know without a doubt that I'd never kill myself. Of course, there's probably a psychological argument that me knowing that is up for debate.

(Don't take this as displeasure with your efforts in this thread: thank you.)

I drive the conservative line because suicidal ideation is a symptom of depression and depression is a good predictor of suicide (and bloody unpleasant in itself).

People in a normal mood just don't think about suicide.

It's a reliable signal that something is wrong. And given how available help is, the smart thing to do is seek help.

I've engaged in suicidal ideation for many years. I'm not at risk of suicide, but if I thought that there was help available I would certainly seek it out.

My question is: what are the forms of help that are available? I know of A) therapy and B) medication.

I've spoken to 5 therapist for a couple sessions each, and my impression was that they are just normal people who you can talk to. They're not people who have answers, nor do they conduct their sessions with an overarching strategic plan. Rather, they're just people who you can talk to, and they will try their best to listen, even if they don't necessarily understand what you say. I know a lot of people benefit from this, but when I tried option A I didn't get anything out of it.

In my case, my mental suffering derives from loneliness. I follow John Cacioppo's work on the subject, and he claims that loneliness is a biological signal (just like hunger) that requires a response. I believe in his explanation, and so to me applying medication to ease loneliness would be similar to giving someone a pill to end their feeling of being hungry. To me that's not really a solution: in the case of hunger, food is the solution, and in the case of loneliness, connection is the solution.

Neither forms of help seem to me like they will help in my particular case. However when you say there's easy help available, you sound very confident. What am I missing?

Fair enough. Thank you again.

I was curious if some of those claims are true, especially since angst, existential despair and melancholy have been part of the human condition and described in one form or another by philosophers and others for thousands of years.

I found this:

http://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au/Suicide-Myths.html

> Myth: All suicidal people are mentally ill. 'Normal' people do not think about suicide.

> Fact: Thoughts of suicide are not uncommon and can occur for anyone. People who see suicide as an option are in emotional pain and may be desperately unhappy. Although mental illnesses such as depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia may be associated with suicidal thinking and behaviour, not everyone who contemplates suicide is living with mental illness.

They don't cite their sources, though it seems to be an australian national suicide prevention site so presumably their claims are not just made up.

I agree, but they're putting the same facts in a different light.

This question is really about the stigma of suicidal ideation ("Oh no, what if I'm a crazy person?"), rather than the fact that suicidal ideation is a serious symptom that should trigger reaching out for help.