I've been programming since I was 4 years old but with literally zero resources or assistance beyond "take books out from the library" for 20 years. It wasn't until I was about 28 until I had the chops to get into the industry (largely down to never having a need or opportunity to learn SQL -- also I mean as a developer, I had a prior career in IT) and even then it wasn't until I was 31 before I had the confidence enough to interview...
On the other hand, I have a wealth of other general computer and protocol knowledge and have been working circles around most of my coworkers since day one. In the typical tech startup world I _rarely_ encounter coworkers with truly deep knowledge outside of whatever language they work in.
IMO the skill isn't about being able to "write code", it's about being able to model how things work.
This is very similar to my story. Once I got on a dev team I was flabbergasted at the lack of breadth and depth of knowledge of my fellow devs. It was only a few older devs that had any clue.
Having gobs of time as a kid and in my twenties to experiment greatly enhanced my capabilities. Once I did start landing corporate jobs (which was exceedingly difficult) I was at or above architect level. As I gained more experience working on production systems I was promoted very quickly (created new positions for me etc).
I have had other architects declare I was the best they have ever met. Which sadly, isn't saying much.
> Once I did start landing corporate jobs (which was exceedingly difficult) I was at or above architect level. As I gained more experience working on production systems I was promoted very quickly (created new positions for me etc).
Ditto and ditto.
I have had some positive experiences working with fresh grads from places like Waterloo (I'd hire 10 of their grads for any one grad from anywhere else...) but my professional experience very much matches yours.
Similar experience, except I have never worked professionally writing software as my primary task. I've always stayed in operations/systems roles or other periphery roles, and now am a PM. I am constantly amazed at how many "senior" engineers actually have no understanding about how a computer actually works. Once I went corporate I moved up the ranks on the systems side of things very fast, and was widely regarded as one of the best engineers in the company everywhere I went, and yet I can see absolute chasms in my knowledge and really try to ensure I identify SMEs I can work with to overcome my own gaps. It is really shocking though how little most working engineers actually understand about technology.
Sorry, are you saying it takes 20 years for a self-taught developer to learn enough programming, especially when they start as kids? No offense, this is a you problem.
I dabbled with PCs since I was 8, around 14 I had enough brain to start to understand BASIC and enough free time to get good enough to write half a decent mini OS by the time I was 17 [1] and got my first paying job (sysadmin and PHP dev) at 19. I'm 37 now.
All you need is free time and being interested enough in the subject matter. And kids learn 10x as fast as adults anyway.
Not sure why you are trying to discourage people from learning on their own based on your time line.
On the other hand, I have a wealth of other general computer and protocol knowledge and have been working circles around most of my coworkers since day one. In the typical tech startup world I _rarely_ encounter coworkers with truly deep knowledge outside of whatever language they work in.
IMO the skill isn't about being able to "write code", it's about being able to model how things work.