Typo on the front page: "intension" should be "intention". You don't want to confuse all those philosophy majors out there :)
I'm looking at your screenshot [1] right now, and one question comes to mind: How are users going to organize their bookmarks on Nilai? The drop-down design shown in the screenshot reminds me of Gmail's labels, which will turn into a mess once you go beyond a certain number of tags/categories. Besides, everyone else uses the same organization system and similar features. Why should I try Nilai when I've already paid a one-time fee to Pinboard?
Well, here's one possible reason. Just the other day, I was trying to import my browser bookmarks into Pinboard, but aborted when I realized that Pinboard would not preserve the elaborate folder hierarchy (270+ folders) that I'd created over the years to organize my 5600+ bookmarks, many of which I never tagged. If there's any non-social bookmarking service that allows me to use both folders/subfolders and tags/labels to organize my bookmarks, I'll sign up in an instant. This isn't about fancy features, it's about basic paradigms. So there's a little feature request!
Good question. I can honestly tell you that given your needs, Nilai may never work well for you. I hope you find the exact service you're looking for though.
Thanks. I was hoping that a service that claims it will be around in 10 years might also come with features that make it easy for people to import and manage bookmarks from 10 years ago. But it seems that your needs are different.
Yes, the json dump is much more pleasant to work with than the old Netscape HTML format. To begin with, it can be easily parsed by any modern programming language. But the file I tried to import into Pinboard the other day was actually an HTML dump from Chrome, where I keep the same set of bookmarks modulo some private stuff. Not that it makes a difference when it comes to preserving folders.
Yea, the big issue is the denormalization of the data in the json dump. While it's machine readable, it's still a bit of a pita to put it together. The other thing is that since you're a folder user, how to you transition that to the tags concepts most services use. Right now I just import the folders as tags from the html dump, but want users that have tags in their stuff to be able to load the json dump to preserve those tags, which seems like it'd still not do what you were looking for. I need to make sure that nested folders means you get multiple tags during import, and I wonder if that'd help you out.
It's just that you repeatedly mention that your main aim is to have a service that will last for ever; but there's nothing different in your service (apart from your intentions) that will guarantee that. Basically, your asking people to trust you on that one.
But if it was Open Source, with good import/export features, then if it was threatened by closure people could just move their data to another service using the same software (techy ppl could even run their own server).
I'm sure there are already open source bookmarking services; why not just help one of those instead of reinventing the wheel?
Of course, the business model for making money from Open Source is completely different. But from your stated intentions, that's not your aim.
jarofgreen: I've thought a lot about this. I'm a big proponent of open source. And I intend to giving a lot of thought to open sourcing Nilai sometime in the future - just so that (as you put it) "techie people" can run their own servers if they want.
However, I think running the service is where the value really is. If someone is techie enough to grab an open source project, install it on their own server, and keep it running - I have little doubt that they could build Nilai. In fact, they can probably build it better than I can.
That being said, I do hope that Nilai will turn a profit. I'm charging such a small cost that I obviously do not intend to get rich off of Nilai but I wouldn't mind it running in the black rather than in the red.
> It's just that you repeatedly mention that your main aim
is to have a service that will last for ever; but there's
nothing different in your service (apart from your
intentions) that will guarantee that. Basically, your
asking people to trust you on that one.
You didn't answer this point; and honestly I don't mean to offend you or imply your intentions are suspect - I don't know you at all, so I can't judge. But that's exactly the problem - how do you persuade ppl like me to trust you?
Compare the situation to wordpress.com vs blogger/tumblr/closed-source-blog-platform. I always look to the former first because I know it's so easy for me to move my blog onto one of many wordpress-supporting hosts or my own server if I need to, and thus I feel the longeveity of my site is guaranteed much more.
You could be in the same situation, if you Open Source it and several people ran your software as a host. That would make it easy for users to switch - and then you have a much better and practical guarantee for users that it will stick around in some form.
Anyway, last comment I'll make as obviously it's your choice in the end; but that's what I think. And I do need to look at an Open Source bookmarking service soon :-)
From the article, it seems the main feature of the service is that it will exist forever -- no sellouts.
That is are very big claim to make, indeed. While very well intentioned and honorable, it is very difficult for anyone to say "this will never go away" and be able to back it up in a meaningful way.
But good for him, nonetheless. In a time when apps and services are treated as throwaway commodities, his eagerness is refreshing.
jroseattle is right, I'm not competing on features. But I assure you that there will be more features than there is today. I'm just getting started.
jroseattle: It is tough to say that it will be around forever but that is exactly what I intend to do. I have the means to run the service myself, even without payment, forever. So far there have only been dozens of sign ups. So I'm not too worried about cost yet. And, if it got too pricey I could turn off sign ups.
For now my goal is to get enough users so that feedback on how the service should mature comes in steadily. We will take it from there once that happens.
The name got me straight away, i wondered if it was someone from indonesia who was building it because i recognized the name as having the meaning of "value" in indonesian (as you mentioned) and what do you know ... its close :).
Good luck with it, hope it goes well. And salam to your dad from one who also has roots in bandung !
rvrv: I've double-checked this claim and I haven't been able to replicate the issue. I would love any suggestions on how to replicate this as well as suggestions on how to button it up. Thanks for finding it!
Hmm. Maybe it is intended behavior or i just do something wrong but my way to replicate this is open http://nilai.co/ and simply click login button without entering anything in login form fields. When i do that i click "Your Marks" and then Archive i i can see sth like this:
He mentions pinboard. the idea of pinboard is the same: no free users. So we have more trust in this service sticking around for the long haul. Also it's simple.
Maybe he should make a small table first listing the differentiating facts between his service and Delicious and Pinboard.
It's just not clear and I fear he will scratch his itch alone...
toadi: I understand your concern. And it is valid. I totally plan on scratching my own itch and I hope that my itches align with other's itches. But, I'm also excepting as many suggestions as anyone cares to give.
Maybe you could come back to Nilai in a few months, see where it is, and if it fits.
I like that you have aspirations here, but can the developer please provide some points about how this service will be different than the rest in terms of features.
recroad I have a roadmap of sorts jotted down. I haven't used Pinboard or the new Delicious to know exactly how they will be different.
One feature I'm really excited about is integration with Instapaper in a very seamless and meaningful way. The beta testers I've had using the site seem to like the idea. I hope to finish up that feature soon.
FWIW, I think something like instapaper, delicious/pinboard, evernote, and clipboard, should really be one service. Combine those four for me and you have my money.
I'm looking at your screenshot [1] right now, and one question comes to mind: How are users going to organize their bookmarks on Nilai? The drop-down design shown in the screenshot reminds me of Gmail's labels, which will turn into a mess once you go beyond a certain number of tags/categories. Besides, everyone else uses the same organization system and similar features. Why should I try Nilai when I've already paid a one-time fee to Pinboard?
Well, here's one possible reason. Just the other day, I was trying to import my browser bookmarks into Pinboard, but aborted when I realized that Pinboard would not preserve the elaborate folder hierarchy (270+ folders) that I'd created over the years to organize my 5600+ bookmarks, many of which I never tagged. If there's any non-social bookmarking service that allows me to use both folders/subfolders and tags/labels to organize my bookmarks, I'll sign up in an instant. This isn't about fancy features, it's about basic paradigms. So there's a little feature request!
[1] http://nilai.co/assets/images/screenshot_desktop.jpg