I get the feeling that I'll be downvoted again if I don't make myself clear with a disclaimer, so here goes: I support the idea of democracy in Hong Kong. Unfortunately, the current movement has many problems (understatement) and cannot be called a true democratic movement. Here are some Hong Kong'ers with a different perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk-m6FDMYg0

Note: there's no great firewall in Hong Kong, so it's normal that they post to Youtube.

Those US flag wavers were limited to some in Hong Kong only. The rest of the population (including Hong Kong) has a very different opinion. See the above videos, posted by Hong Kong'ers.

Furthermore, how exactly does the US plan to liberate people? Here's what's done so far:

- Hong Kong Human Rights bill, which damages the Hong Kong economy.

- Banning Chinese companies, which damages both the Chinese and the US economy.

I believe that your intentions are genuine, but I don't believe the US govt's intentions are. To them it's all a political game, like "liberating" Iraq from that evil dictator who conjured weapons of mass destruction out of nothing.

> Here are some Hong Kong'ers with a different perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk-m6FDMYg0

So? In 7.5 million people, you can find examples of pretty much any opinion you can think of. I can find videos from Westerners who will lecture you like they're reading from a CCP propaganda script.

> Those US flag wavers were limited to some in Hong Kong only.

Of course: anyone who did that in China outside of Hong Kong would have been arrested immediately, just like anyone who would try to do that now inside of Hong Kong (due to the new national security law).

> The rest of the population (including Hong Kong) has a very different opinion.

I'm not so sure, even before the national security law, a call for liberation would have been pushing the boundaries. If an opinion is literally illegal, it's impossible to say with any kind of reliability how prevalent that opinion truly is (or what kinds of opinions people would hold, without the threats and their second and third order effects).

> Furthermore, how exactly does the US plan to liberate people? Here's what's done so far:

> - Hong Kong Human Rights bill, which damages the Hong Kong economy.

> - Banning Chinese companies, which damages both the Chinese and the US economy.

The most obvious is to drop the economics uber alles outlook, and limit engagement to areas that might eventually lead to positive results on the human rights front.

>>> "We support you, we just hate your government. So we'll forcefully liberate you, even if you didn't ask for liberation."

>> You do recall there's a pretty high-profile movement of Chinese citizens, some of whom were waving American flags and asking for liberation?

> Furthermore, how exactly does the US plan to liberate people? Here's what's done so far:

I didn't say it had a plan or that it could, I was merely pointing out that as a matter of fact, that liberation was wanted and asked for.

Did you even watch the video? They aren’t talking about supporting CCP, they’re examining what’s wrong with some of the protest movement’s attitude. There is literally zero CCP-sourced material in what they say.

When someone has an opinion that differs from yours, you downplay it as being an exception to the rule. For some reason, you stick to the default position that most Chinese people overwhelmingly want liberation from US, and that any evidence to the contrary is an anomaly.

It’s up to you to believe what you want. But I will let you know that I disagree, and that you ought to reexamine your axioms.

> Did you even watch the video? They aren’t talking about supporting CCP, they’re examining what’s wrong with some of the protest movement’s attitude. There is literally zero CCP-sourced material in what they say.

I watched a bit, but it seem to start reason from some East vs. West stereotypes so I took a peek at some of their other videos. One "National Security vs Democrazy: Analyzed with Facts and Logic" appeared to try to justify the new HK National Security law by appealing to superficial readings of some foreign laws, and the others like "Italians: "HK Separatists are Traitors, EU is Failing" - Keybros SOFTtalk Ep.2 🇮🇹 (3/3)" appear to be collections interview of random Westerners with rather fringe views. If they said anything interesting, feel free to summarize them in text, but I think I have better things to do with 20 minutes.

> When someone has an opinion that differs from yours, you downplay it as being an exception to the rule. For some reason, you stick to the default position that most Chinese people overwhelmingly want liberation from US, and that any evidence to the contrary is an anomaly.

You know, I didn't actually say any of what you claim I did.

I didn't watch all of their videos, but you certainly have a point with regards to them interviewing people with fringe views. For what it's worth, I've sent this feedback to them and they say they plan to do something about it.