Key answer: "And though I live in France, I’m not immersed enough. I use French for work, but I speak lots of English too, including with my kids and husband. I don’t have an “école horizontale” — a romantic partner with whom I speak only French."
I've lived abroad in multiple countries and have met a lot of people trying to learn the language. Without fail, you absolutely have to have either a full-time job in the language, or be romantically involved with someone in the language (without falling back to English) and spend a ton of time with them. That's simply the only way you'll get enough hours of exposure in.
Also you can learn English fluently without living in an English-speaking country, but only by spending basically all your free time watching English TV/films and listening to music. Not just every so often, but you make consuming English content your life.
If you're American living abroad but are married to another American and your job is mostly in English, it doesn't matter that you live in the country -- I've never seen anyone in that situation master the language. It just doesn't give you the necessary thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of exposure, and because it's low-level exposure, you also quickly reach the point where you're forgetting as many words as you're learning, so it's not even cumulative -- you just reach a plateau. There's even an academic name for it, just Google "intermediate language plateau".
>I've lived abroad in multiple countries and have met a lot of people trying to learn the language. Without fail, you absolutely have to have either a full-time job in the language, or be romantically involved with someone in the language (without falling back to English) and spend a ton of time with them. That's simply the only way you'll get enough hours of exposure in.
I've met many people who have learnt to speak a language (most examples would be for English and German, latter without consuming that much German media) without having this, and am currently learning a language without anything resembling this. Your statement simply seems wrong to me no matter how I read it.
Agreed. There's a a few guys on /r/languagelearning who learned Italian to a C1 level without ever stepping foot in the country, or being married to a native. It can be done, it's just more difficult.
Let me clarify: get beyond intermediate proficiency, which is what the article was about. I thought that was understood from the context, sorry.
So it really depends on what you mean by "leaning to speak a language". You can learn to speak at an intermediate level just by taking courses for a couple of years, dedicated study with books/tapes, etc. But I don't mean that.
I mean getting to the point where it being a foreign language becomes a non-issue. Where you can travel to the country and interact fully in any social conversation, normally understanding every single word (i.e. at the same level of your native language) and speaking with appropriate vocab and grammar so everybody understand every word of yours. Without having to constantly ask for clarification, or just "not get" half of it, or constantly re-explain what you meant using other words because people were confused the first time you said something.
They're worlds apart. And that real fluency just absolutely requires thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of constant real-life interaction (and real-time correction, whether from friends or coworkers or romantic partners) in the language. There aren't any shortcuts to that.
I've lived abroad in multiple countries and have met a lot of people trying to learn the language. Without fail, you absolutely have to have either a full-time job in the language, or be romantically involved with someone in the language (without falling back to English) and spend a ton of time with them. That's simply the only way you'll get enough hours of exposure in.
Also you can learn English fluently without living in an English-speaking country, but only by spending basically all your free time watching English TV/films and listening to music. Not just every so often, but you make consuming English content your life.
If you're American living abroad but are married to another American and your job is mostly in English, it doesn't matter that you live in the country -- I've never seen anyone in that situation master the language. It just doesn't give you the necessary thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of exposure, and because it's low-level exposure, you also quickly reach the point where you're forgetting as many words as you're learning, so it's not even cumulative -- you just reach a plateau. There's even an academic name for it, just Google "intermediate language plateau".