No I don't think you have failed to explain yourself, but I think it's quite possible that we still have a fundamental disagreement about how liberally and when to apply bans.
I don't agree that we were ever talking about bad people until you introduced the notion, and the conversation does not need to be about Linus, but if it was... he is not accused of chastising bad people, he's chastising people with bad ideas. You suggested that he filter them out if they persist, and I basically equated that kind of filtering as like a ban, that I would never use as a community leader.
I'm sorry internet stranger, but I don't feel confident in (your or my) ability to effectively distinguish objectively between a contributor who is (trollish, insistent, selfish etc)... vs one who is being (persistent, uncompromising, a bit stubborn, maybe snarky once in a while, or playing devil's advocate for argumentative purposes, etc.)
Those adjectives can convey opposite subjective opinions in the same objective reality, and the side you choose to be on may depend on simply whether you like the person or not. Is it a ban-worthy offense or is it exhibiting decisive leadership qualities? Well I think that probably depends on whether or not you'd be the one laughing if I said "fuck off and die" just one more time in this thread. You're arguing in good faith but I still disagree with your conclusion.
We're arguing a hypothetical so I'm not sure either of us will convince the other of anything, but here's my piece.
Five comments ago, you suggested filtering people who annoy you with their persistent bad ideas in a professional setting, and I've done all I can to argue that it's not a strategy that will ever work for Linus, and it's not a good strategy for either me or you, you should not consider it.
"Go to HR" is the strategy for dealing with bad people in a professional setting.
If someone's ideas are bad, you should not exile them from the community for it, obviously. If you're serious about leading in a community, ask yourself if you'd be willing to "walk this person down to HR" before you consider waving around a ban hammer or filtering them out and ghosting, because that's exactly like what you're doing.
Linus is not leaving LKML, and that's another topic. You'll have to filter his mails if you find him offensive and you're on the LKML, let me know how that goes for you.
You could also try to read past the insult, and divine the point that was intended to be heard, and take it to heart.
An insult from Linus is like a blessing. He just doesn't give them to anyone. But I'm not here defending Linus.
We disagree indeed, and that was foreseeable. I just wanted to clarify my words.
I'm not on the LKML and most probably won't ever be. But I generally say a word or two about Torvalds' behaviour because he is a "role model" for upcoming (and current) F/OSS maintainers, and I doubt he is a good one for these growing communities to be healthy places. If he is fine, and his peers are fine, I don't actually care about them as long as they are pushing bugfixes to the kernel.
I don't agree that we were ever talking about bad people until you introduced the notion, and the conversation does not need to be about Linus, but if it was... he is not accused of chastising bad people, he's chastising people with bad ideas. You suggested that he filter them out if they persist, and I basically equated that kind of filtering as like a ban, that I would never use as a community leader.
I'm sorry internet stranger, but I don't feel confident in (your or my) ability to effectively distinguish objectively between a contributor who is (trollish, insistent, selfish etc)... vs one who is being (persistent, uncompromising, a bit stubborn, maybe snarky once in a while, or playing devil's advocate for argumentative purposes, etc.)
Those adjectives can convey opposite subjective opinions in the same objective reality, and the side you choose to be on may depend on simply whether you like the person or not. Is it a ban-worthy offense or is it exhibiting decisive leadership qualities? Well I think that probably depends on whether or not you'd be the one laughing if I said "fuck off and die" just one more time in this thread. You're arguing in good faith but I still disagree with your conclusion.
We're arguing a hypothetical so I'm not sure either of us will convince the other of anything, but here's my piece.
Five comments ago, you suggested filtering people who annoy you with their persistent bad ideas in a professional setting, and I've done all I can to argue that it's not a strategy that will ever work for Linus, and it's not a good strategy for either me or you, you should not consider it.
"Go to HR" is the strategy for dealing with bad people in a professional setting.
If someone's ideas are bad, you should not exile them from the community for it, obviously. If you're serious about leading in a community, ask yourself if you'd be willing to "walk this person down to HR" before you consider waving around a ban hammer or filtering them out and ghosting, because that's exactly like what you're doing.
Linus is not leaving LKML, and that's another topic. You'll have to filter his mails if you find him offensive and you're on the LKML, let me know how that goes for you.
You could also try to read past the insult, and divine the point that was intended to be heard, and take it to heart.
An insult from Linus is like a blessing. He just doesn't give them to anyone. But I'm not here defending Linus.