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Not sure you need any of that. My entire 'city' is private property including the streets. There is absolutely no one to manage them, no HOA, absolutely nothing. If you can't drive on them you literally have to bust out a tractor and fix it. There is no public water or sewer, no public utilities, so you build them yourself and the amortized cost is easily half of paying some asshole working for the state to administer it. No building inspection, no code inspections. No policeman and no fire; you defend your own life and property rather than some crazed man "protecting and serving" the fuck out of you. Taxes are ~$0. Absolutely glorious. I'd be happy if everywhere was like that.

So you can build a house in the middle of a street?

If someone tries to stop you, by what authority? If they can stop you, there's your government.

More than 100,000 people?

Even Kowloon had a degree of management by criminal groups.


I'm not claiming there is literally no government, I'm claiming they are not acting in planning or maintenance ('civil management') capacity. If you have an easement contract to travel on a 'street' and someone violates it by building a house on it you can still sue them but the government has nothing to do with planning that. The population is not quite 100k but also not an order of magnitude lower either.

But you don't have to pay them even if you lose the suit. No police. If they try to take by force you can defend your property and your life.

Yeah this has happened, where someone went into the easement. Though with fences instead of houses. People just drive around. Realistically no one has decided to die over a fence or house being in the way and no one has decided to die over blocking a car from going around. It's one of those thought exercises that sounds interesting but isn't actually an issue.

Now I suppose at this point you'll move on to the next goal posts. We've been deregulated for 20+ years and we got this long list of gotchas by the statists when we did it but none of the hysterical hypothetical happened and largely because anyone capable of feeding themselves soon realizes acting in extreme bad faith in a place without police is worse for them than it is the people around them. You can add all the 'but but' whatubaut this and that but it simply isn't any more a problem than the fact we also haven't installed anti-aircraft lasers in case aliens arrive.


What an odd tangent.

Perhaps if you named the place I would be more able to assess information.

I have little to go on, when you say privately owned? By whom?

Is the ungoverned nature recognised by the country within which it resides?


I'm glad you have the option to live somewhere like that. I'm also glad you can't forcibly impose it on everyone else. I'll take a moderate level of corruption over a completely unregulated anarchic hellhole, thank you very much.

I really want to know where this is.

~Most of rural AZ and probably rural AK is like this. There are some 'cities' that never incorporated and have street grids without any sort of government administering them nor any organized system of maintenance.

Interesting. I wonder how large a population that could support?

Similar to socialism, which works just fine in a family, or hunter gatherer tribe, but starts running into problems at large scale.


Socialism seems to be working fine in Canada, it's just selective. Health care, roads, police, fire fighters, sewage, energy & energy infrastructure are all socially owned.

That's some similarities to the Salem Witch Trials. They were largely about going after whoever had a vendetta and pull with the courts and the bewitchery was the plausible mechanism under which that happens. The 'mania' was largely a veneer under which hid raw projection of judicial-political power to rid political and personal undesirables.

One thing I learned when I was homeless and 'stealth' camping is that if a place isn't accessible by car, and you haven't parked a car somewhere that would indicate to someone that a person had left a car and went somewhere, you are basically completely off the map and ~no one will discover you exist. Came in quite handy when finding locations to sleep without being bothered.

What would this mean? Like would you be driving to a library and leaving a car there, then hiking into the woods nearby to camp?

As someone who may occasionally need to stealth camp on road trips I’m curious what you learned, or if it would even be useful


He was homeless. I don't think he had to worry about where he was parking his car.

Also leave your phone behind.

We ended up with locked cockpits that the pilots won't open for anybody, plus passengers willing to fight back due to the tragedy of the terrorists. We ended up with the TSA because Karen needed security theatre and the government was all too happy to increase the funding and scope of DHS with the nod of the useful idiots.

And the locked cockpits have been indirectly responsible for a huge number of deaths. Best intentions and all that

IIRC, there was one commercial passenger flight where the captain locked himself out of the cockpit that led to everyone dying.

Have there been multiple separate incidents?

The other side of the coin is that hijackings used to be a frequent and regular occurrence. Now they're not anymore.


You mean the incident where his copilot intentionally locked him out of the cockpit and crashed the plane into a mountain? Hardly seems like an indictment of locked doors to me.

There was also Helios 522 where one of the cabin attendants only managed to enter minutes before the engines flamed out, there is a strong argument if the door wasn't locked he could've entered earlier.

And my understanding is that the current theory for MH370 is that the pilot locked out the copilot and then depressurised the cabin.

There are non-fatal cases like Ethiopian Airlines Flight 702 where the copilot locked the captain out when we was in the restroom (though loss of life was still a possibility, one of the engines had flamed out and was on emergency fuel).

As with all incidents, there are many factors that lead to them, but in these cases the presence of locked and reinforced cockpit doors contributed to the incident (in malicious cases the fact the door was impenetrable was clearly part of the decision-making, and in accident cases it was obviously an impediment to any positive outcome once the incident occurred).


I don't even think Karen got involved, it was just the Bush administration seizing the opportunity for more corruption, pork barrels, surveillance and harassment of the population at large full stop.

At least where I'm from, the cost of a property with a burned-out unusable house on it is always a shit-ton more than land value, since running utilities to a house site, dealing with the paperwork, etc. is way more expensive and precarious than the cost to bulldoze. If there was a house there you can just raze to foundation and rebuild it without having to trigger a clusterfuck with the utility company or septic re-evaluation.

Also if the house is at least mortgagable by someone then buyers will still bid the price up to infinity on debt even if the house is only usable for bulldozing. The land value itself is also way lower for places without a house since the land value is loanable in one case and not the other.


I've seen hood rats specifically camp out near the bar to find marks to steal from, though. In that sense the bar can congregate crime.

>hood rats

unbiased source data, clearly


And then hope you're not one of the ~1/3 that end in a divorce at which point your house gets firesold to first low-balling flipper. House can be really bad anytime it's multiple people liquidating it -- I watched some other family members inherit a house and it sold for about half it's value because some family members weren't willing to wait more than a millisecond for the inheritance payout.

I zero'd out almost all these costs by building a shack myself and leaving it uninsured. Maintenance cost almost zero because I own all the tools and much the spare materials already form building the house. Cost of house $60,000 post COVID, there is a similar ready-built house next to me for sale almost $300,000.

I was waiting for the classic “why would you pay for Dropbox” comment

People aren't statistical machine, they make judgements based on their life experiences. I've lived in at least half a dozen inner Midwest cities in the ghetto poor cores and I would describe the experience as basically "stay strapped or get clapped hellscape." People trying to rob me at gunpoint (yes happened), stealing my bikes and whatever they can find outside, testing you and sizing you up to see if you're a good mark, etc etc. On one occasion I got a flat tire and the gats immediately came out once they saw my white face; I guess they respected the fact I decided to fight back with my hands because for whatever reason they decided not to shoot me.

So yeah maybe the statistics say something else (I wonder how many people like me just don't report crime -- the police do nothing in such places) but I'm not eager to relive that experience.

That said your immediate neighbors in these areas can be incredibly nice and protective of each other as a survival mechanism, because everyone else is quite literally out to get you.


This story just doesn't add up.

I started trying doing for my kids what was done to me and quickly ran into a brick wall. Had school refuse to release child when I wasn't physically present at bus stop, had cops called at the park, and have had Karens roll up and interrogate my kid for walking "alone" on our property.

Only solution I found was to move in the middle of nowhere and buy acreage. No other kids but at least the Karens can be trespassed and the child snatchers are too underfunded / too far of a drive away for them to bother us over a sad faced Karen calling.

The other option that's really going to piss some people off when I say, but matches my reality, is living in a few ghetto neighborhoods when I was broke there were literally so many single moms that the child snatchers could not possibly punish all of them and the kids roamed because momma was at work and they were protected from the Karens/CPS by having critical mass.


When my first-born was six I walked around with her to all of the neighbor's houses and we introduced ourselves. We informed them that my daughter would likely be moving around the neighborhood independently, perhaps on occasion with her younger brother. I gave them my phone number and told them to call any time.

In addition to having no problems with Karens or the CPS we were able to identify the other houses that had kids in them and a band of independent neighborhood kids playing with and looking out for eachother quickly became the norm in our community.


Poor people often get a pass for various reasons. Many/most of those reasons may be bad or stupid ones, but I see it as a silver lining. There is often much more of a sense of community than in other places as well.

Giving kids access to a bunch of rural land to explore is a great middle ground for those who can do it.


>If there was hope, it must lie in the proles

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