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It's absolutely not the right time to contact EU representatives. They are in vacation, and the vote goes on september/october.

Put a note in your calendar, write a letter and send it then.

btw, the link say it's around 3% of people who want to be tracked when the reports state it's between 3 and 10%. it's misleading.


You wouldn't be surprised if that happened when traveling to China or any other autocratic country.

I think the issue is that people expect the USA to be the "land of freedom" when it's not anymore. It's turning more and more into an oligarchy and we are at the point where it's just as bad as russia or china.

If i was offered a trip to China or russia, i'd go but i would take a burner phone with absolutely nothing important; It's the same for the usa now.


No, as someone who lived in China for years (as foreigner) and visited also last year after many years I WOULD BE SURPRISED if this happened when travelling to China, since China is clearly more free than US/Israel.

China wants tourists and don't care about your stupid social media.


> 1. Don't travel with anything you can't afford to lose on device. This means setting up travel-specific password managers and hardware keys for a subset of your accounts that you absolutely need to access while abroad, and being prepared to reset those passwords and disable those hardware keys very quickly once home.

> 2. Review past legal cases against travelers and identify what behaviors the government considers worthy of prosecution or harassment. Your secure setup must function without needing you to engage in those behaviors, even if it is less convenient as a result. This isn't perfect, as the government may decide some new behavior is prosecutable.

> 3. Consult with a lawyer and review your security procedures from a legal standpoint. All of the above is technical and practical advice, not legal counsel and no substitute for it.

Just don't go to the usa and if it's for professional reason, don't bring your personal phone.


Talk about overreacting. How likely do you think border control are going to spend any more time on some random schmuck than necessary? If you're afraid about remote risks like that then definitely don't leave your home at all (except that's also risky).

> Just don't go to the usa

As a Canadian. I won't be going there for a long time


Canadian border control has the legal authority to search your phone and you are obligated to provide a password.

Are you a Canadian lawyer? I did some research and your statement doesn’t hold up.

CBSA policy does state you are obligated to provide your password if they are conducting a lawful device examination, however they cannot do it arbitrarily, and they must have a legal basis for searching the device.

> CBSA policy states that examinations of personal devices should not be conducted as a matter of routine; such searches may be conducted only if there are grounds or indications that “evidence of contraventions may be found on the digital device or media.”

Furthermore, Canadian courts have not yet definitively ruled on whether compelling password disclosure is constitutionally permissible.

This is very different than the US, where CBP can conduct a basic search without any individualized suspicion.

So, Canada and the US are definitely not the same, which seems to be the implied meaning behind your comment, and your explicit statement that CBSA has legal authority to search your phone is, at best, misleading.

I’m not a lawyer or a legal expert so I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me if you have Canadian legal experience.

https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topics/airports-and-border...


US CBP is also not doing phone searches as a matter of routine.

You've left out the important qualifier I put at the outset of those three points:

> If your threat model includes US state actors

It was not advice for everyone, nor even most people. I have plenty of friends abroad, and a few of them have even traveled to my country for the World Cup and had a grand time.

I roll my eyes at this kind of overreaction, the same way I imagine Europeans rolling their eyes to hear Americans worried about migrant crime news stories not wanting to travel to Europe. Or maybe they used to roll their eyes at that... I'm less sure now.


But I've got nothing to hide

(Aware/assuming you're being sarcastic.) I've always felt that statement reveals a serious lack of imagination, or at least a failure to apply it to the question.

For once, that's a great thing. I'm glad Firefox includes it directly into the app, but could we also use that opportunity to get it to work on Android ?

Since it's open, everyone can download and run it on their computer, it makes no sense to ban them. Everyone would still keep using them.

I think at this point I'm ready to give up on Reddit, most of my questions are already answered by LLM.

And the discussions quality on Reddit are abysmal, its filled with bots.


> I think at this point I'm ready to give up on Reddit, most of my questions are already answered by LLM.

That's a bizarre and self-sabotaging path to take. Almost all LLMs get a substantial portion of their knowledge from Reddit. In order to evaluate the quality of those LLM responses, you'll have to click through to the Reddit threads and critically evaluate the quality of the underlying discussions.

If you just blindly accept LLM responses without evaluating the sources, you'll be accepting a lot of garbage, and it'll show.

> And the discussions quality on Reddit are abysmal, its filled with bots.

I spend quite a lot of time reading and writing on Reddit, and while I encounter plenty of low-quality posts and comments, I'd say that essentially none of them are written by bots.


>I spend quite a lot of time reading and writing on Reddit, and while I encounter plenty of low-quality posts and comments, I'd say that essentially none of them are written by bots.

Err... I spend quite a lot of time on Reddit as well (including moderating a medium size subreddit) and I can assure you that there are tons of bot posts and comments all over the site right now. If you think this, you're probably not very good at identifying this kind of content.


It sounds like maybe your moderation is working!

I spend most of my time on subreddits related to the city where I live, and tax+financial planning forums.


I'm a moderator on a moderately popular and active subreddit, and I can assure you that there is an unreasonable amount of bot activity on reddit. They range from just spam (usually obvious) to bulk astroturfing. We try to stop what we can, but plenty gets through.

Any ideas to mitigate?

Inside of Reddit itself? Not with the tools we're given from Reddit. We know Reddit has internal tools to block spam/bots, so I believe what we see is the most sophisticated ones (they're not too sophisticated mostly, but they're not the zero effort bulk spam that reddit catches easily).

Something that would make things far easier for mods would be if the posters hashed IP was shown/made available to mods. Thats mostly for more localized bad actors/astroturfers and not large spam/scam rings with proxy networks.

Things we've done that have made a difference with the tools we've got from Reddit:

1) we don't allow new accounts or ones with negative accounts to post in our subreddit

2) any posts that match criteria or hit the front page are automatically put in a mode where you must have a positive subreddit karma over a threshold to post. This helps filter out brigading and low effort shit posting from front page plebs

3) we're using a reddit app that allows us to remove posts from people that have posted in identified subreddits. Right now we're just experimenting with this and we're in a data collection mode, but we can see that the people its catching (while some of our most prolific posters) are also some of our most problematic posters, so I think we're going to go from data collection to just straight up having the bot remove comments from people that post in those troublesome subreddits.


I'm curious what you've found the troublesome subreddits to be. I think I have a pretty strong idea what they are, but some validation would be nice.

I'm not comfortable disclosing them because we don't want our 'secret sauce' to be leaked and let people know we're on to their BS.

I will tell you that it's mostly the ones you expect if you're heavily engaged with Reddit and moderation. But there are several new gathering places that I didn't know about until we started spelunking on the most annoying posters histories.

This is one of the places where a tool that scrapes reddit and lets you see deleted comments is absolutely clutch--these people are very good about removing the worst of their vile spewing on reddit, or changing their comments to look innocuous after people have gotten worked up. It's all about making people they disagree with look like bullies and idiots.


> remove posts from people that have posted in identified subreddits

So you're actually censoring opinions, not fighting spam, just like every other reddit mod.


We're maintaining a space where people with actual skin in the game can have conversations about hot button topics. We do not maintain the subreddit for large numbers of outside agitators to parachute in, shout down local discourse, and then fuck off immediately.

There is room for people on any side of an argument to come in and discuss. They can do so in a civilized, adult manner, or they can fuck right off. Call it censorship if you like.


> There is room for people on any side of an argument to come in and discuss.

Obviously not, when you ban them immediately just for participating in another subreddit, regardless of what they wrote there.


Call your buddy and come up with a meeting spot.

This is my Hail Mary hope with LLMs. They're obviously going to get to the point that any sort of reasonable validation of a person online becomes impossible. LLMs could ultimately destroy online chatter. I like shitposting as much as the next guy, and probably a good deal more, but in reality the sort of discourse you get online is so mediocre relative to real life. It's just somehow quite addicting for whatever reason.

It’s just crazy to think that Reddit and the massive volume of text it allowed to be created helped lead us here….

No new valuable training data has been created on Reddit since 2023.

What's your source for this claim?

I've read new, valuable-to-me human-written information on Reddit since 2023, so I very much doubt this is true.


You can ask gpt/claude to verify multiple sources online and never to guess. You can even set up a project that always does that with anything you ask it. It's probably better as reddit can be very opinionated.

I agree with them. In many of the subs I used to frequent, the outrage is high and the signal is low. LLM really is the best way to consume the content there. Retrieve the new posts of the day/week, filter out the outrage and politics and low-effort Reddit in-jokes/copypasta, then summarize the various comment threads. My time is too valuable to sift through the utterly mind-numbing nonsense to get the occasional new piece of info. If you want to dig deeper, ask the LLM to dig in. Or have it regurgitate verbatim a pre-filtered selection of comments.

Reddit is a good source of new happenings and discussions, but I’m willing to spend some tech company’s compute to clean it up for me. For example, I often want to branch out from a particular musical artist. Reddit has many good recommendations. LLM is perfectly capable of gathering these.


To many bots on reddit, so your solution is to go directly to the bot!!?

If bots bury the signal in noise then an LLM is only going go back and give you the summary of the noise.


The bots (and humans) I’m trying to weed out are the pot-stirring permanently outraged/bitter commenters. For example on a “car overturned on X road” post, people getting into fights about whether BMW or Subaru or Tesla drivers are worse. That’s all noise. I want to know when it happened, which direction of traffic, if it’s cleared up yet, etc. LLM works well to remove the off-topic garbage. If someone is botting the actual content (recommendations, reviews, etc) and the up/downvoters are unable to identify it as a bot, I probably won’t be able to either. So I’m not worse off using the LLM.

Worst case I get some pre-digested garbage and I waste less time, best case the LLM pulled out a few good nuggets of info. It’s not a perfect system yet. There’s a lot to tune with how deep to go, what constitutes garbage vs signal, and so on. At least it’s fun :)


I gave up on it years ago when they killed off 3rd party clients, I have to say it doesn't seem like I've been missing much. The rare occasion I do need to see something on it, it's just full of deleted accounts and comments. I do also love how VPNs get blocked but accessing it over tor is allowed (genuinely I think allowing access over tor is great, but it seems so antithetical to everything else they've done recently)

I find it amazing how they killed off 3rd party clients many years ago, yet their first party mobile client is still garbage.

It is nowhere near as good as the third party apps that were made by a single individual developer.

It goes to show how a presumably large budget and sizable team is outdone by a single talented individual outside of the constraints of an enterprise environment.

Or maybe Reddit is particularly incompetent. I occasionally use their website on mobile, and if anything it has been getting worse.

That Reddit sells our content and does a terrible job at moderation, which they largely outsource to us as unpaid labor, is just the cherry on top.


RIP Apollo…

I doubt Reddit killed the third-party apps to improve its mobile experience. They were probably just trying to cash in on the AI hype.


I suspect they’re not blocking tor to maintain both an image of being some kind of safe haven for democracy warriors and because tor is monitored by the 5+1 eyes it’s also a conduit for intel and asset development among those kids who think they’re democracy warriors or something.

You can't login via tor anymore in my experience

Reddit did reliably block Tor with 429 but no longer does.

>I gave up on it years ago when they killed off 3rd party clients

Revanced.


VPNs get blocked? Your VPS needs an ip update.

VPN blocking is a thing now. It's always a game of whackamole, but the whacker is getting a lot better lately thanks to states and countries having new laws against accessing age restricted content.

yeah, residential proxies are the future.

A lot of the programming adjacent subreddits have been post after post of weekend vibe coded projects. It's become really exhausting how easy it is to turn out a new wheel that's going to get abandoned in a few weeks at best.

Yeah the software related subs are worthless now. All spam.

Admittedly, HN is suffering the same fate to some extent.

To some extent? It's most of the content!

How is that any different to HN?

Yeah, it's a problem a lot of those subs are grappling with.

They broke the mobile website. You scroll a little and it blocks content and asks you to get the app.

old.reddit didnt but now you have to login to use it.

I just want to read. I dont want the app and I dont want to login.


Not sure how long it will survive, but opening it in a private browser tab helped.

Also, funny enough that this pissed me off so much, that I started asking LLM to search for something on reddit. I don’t care about the answer since due to it being reddit, LLM is not helpful, but what we get access to; is the citation/links exactly to the post you want and never had trouble in the ios webview within the apps. Use it as a billion dollar scraper and you won’t be disappointed with AI.



I cancelled my Reddit subscription when they killed third party clients and haven't really used the site since.

At least the sheer stupidity of bots is understandable. It's arguably the real users that are worse...

The discussion quality is unbelievably shallow in most of the subreddits.

Unless it's a niche and technical subreddit such as mathematical topics, bio science subtopic, the discussion is quite shallow and in some cases simply misinformed.

For e.g., a recent question about "is this person racist?", everyone jumped on the bandwagon and said "yes!", "100%", "obviously" without citing any sources. They simply paraphrased a small segment of a video of what that person said.

It turned out the thing they paraphrased it was completely out of context and in fact proved it was opposite of what people were believing.

There were a couple of people who pointed this out but they were downvoted into obvilion: -50 downvotes or something like that.

So these comments were hidden by default.

This is what makes reddit an ecochamber. Now just imagine people coming in and reading this post without any prior knowledge, and taking away the wrong conclusion.

This happens ALL the time.

I used to enjoy reddit back in 2011-2013 when it was all about silly memes and jokes.

EDIT: "They simply paraphrased it" --> "They simply paraphrased a small segment of a video of what that person said."


> everyone jumped on the bandwagon

Reddit has become the epitome of Idiocracy, but let's not pretend like spam-level shallow commenters sucking each other off hasn't infected this place too.

I honestly think if we took voting away the dynamics of online discussion would reset to normal.


/. Actually did do that right. You voted on comments and had to judge other votes as to whether or not they were accurate. And limit the + or - to a maximum of 5. Then you don't have people chasing scores.

Granted, the voting system was the only thing slashdot did right, but it was good.


/. Is the same 10 dudes arguing with each other all day long on every thread.

20 years ago that place was awesome.

The only subs of any value are the niche subs, hobby subs that show off creation, and city-sized geographical subs.

Everything else is politics, trolling, ragebait or simple spam. So much spam.


Not sure why you'd expect anything except a list like to be of "any value".

It's like, say, talk.politics.theory back in the Usenet days. For a while it was fun, and then it wasn't. Too big, too wide .. it killed itself as a useful place to discuss/debate politics.


In my experience most of the city subs have been overrun by political trolls too

Not even the city-sized ones. My local ones (Seattle when I lived there, and Orange County ones now) are political cesspools full of intolerant people and outrage bait.

“Pajama Nazis vs Basement Bolsheviks.”

Forget where I saw that one but it’s Reddit now.


Back in the End Times of Google+, I had access to a data dump of all n-million Google+ Communities metadata (name, subscribers, and visible activity on the Community homepage, the last of which gave an indication of post cadence).

I noticed two odd things:

1. Taking a log-log plot of number v. size of Communities, there were far fewer very large communities than a straight power-law relation would suggest ... by a factor of 2--4 or so. This didn't look extreme plotted log-log, but when you looked at the raw values, there was something dampening the count pretty markedly.

2. In terms of activity, posting cadence fell off once a community hit (very roughly) about 10k members. Above that there still might be a lot of activity, but it was a lot less than size alone would suggest.

I've never been able to conclusively answer why either of these behavious should be the case, though I suspect that:

I suspect that the first has to do with the tendency of very large forums to go rogue (be taken over by bots / shills / spammers, or otherwise go off), to be moderated by site admins (excessive and pervasive violation of site policies), and/or simply put real people off participation because there's no genuine reward for doing so (questions aren't answered, or are responded to with incivility and/or spam).

The second (more activity in mid-sized communities) would probably relate to the last factor above: with ~10k members (give or take an order of magnitude), there's probably a core of a few hundred to a few thousand active participants, which is about at the threshold where associations and affinities can form. People still have conversations, at least part of the time.

Keep in mind that G+ (similar to FB) has a flat discussion format, so that the most recent comments are appended to the end of a post. Reddit, like HN, has a threaded discussion. For a long time I criticised G+ for not supporting threads, but I came to feel that this was actually a strength where discussions were well-moderated, as there was a sense of a real discussion occurring, where later respondants would often refer to an earlier comment (usually naming the author and quoting a bit of context) in replying. Conversations could and did last for days, weeks, months, and years. By contrast, on Reddit (and HN), a conversation is effectively dead within a day or so, if not a few hours. Comments are simply howling into the void.

This happens somewhat less on HN than Reddit, largely due to the finite size of HN's front page (infamously: 30 stories, though many might cycle through over a day). Odds are good that a top-5 story actually has some exchanges on it, and I've carried on a few of these for a few days.

But I'd long ago noted that Reddit was where conversation, in the sense of an exchange between multiple parties, goes to die, especially on any of the larger (million-plus follower) subreddits. Smaller (~50 -- a few thousand members) generally does far better.

In a similar sense, HN's quiet days (weekends, holidays, or during The Burn) often see far less activity but far more interaction.


>and city-sized geographical subs.

lol. No. Every city sub is the EXACT same far left lunatic that needs to make everything about politics. Doesn’t matter if it’s a purple area, red, and reasonable-blue areas far reflected as bizarro versions of themselves if you go off their city reddits.

You may not notice depending on your perspective.


It's not just leftists. It's polarization generally, with scale.

The mid-range views leave. The extremes remain. Often a sub / moderator bias selects for one polar extreme or another.

This is where HN's (generally) political-neutral moderator stance, maddening as it often is to both sides (see dang's many, many, many, many comments on perceived bias), seems to have largely succeeded. Neither side dominates, and the middle isn't excluded.


HN definitely removes political extreme views.

Almost always by user flags rather than moderation removal, no?

Automated removal by user flags is itself a moderation decision.

Late reply: I'd intended to write "moderator removal", in the comment you're replying to.

That's a subtle but IMO meaningful distinction: HN's net moderation activity (participants, automated mechanisms, moderators) is not necessarily the same as that which occurs by staff moderators (admins) themselves, and much of the staff moderator activity is actually correcting for participant votes and flags.

This may be an overly fine point, but it seems worth pointing out. Particularly as any moderation system has its biases. But as I'd noted in my earlier reply(<https://qht.co/item?id=49021366>), what HN achieves is a reduction in polarized commentary across the political spectrum, to an extent few other platforms have managed to accomplish. People on either side of multiple political divides seem to find bias against their own view, when the reality seems more likely that there's just not a wholehearted embrace of their perspective.

(That's largely my own take as well, though I think I've also become more skilled at presenting my arguments, and that perhaps as a consequence they're better received. I see disagreement, but fairly often support, even when arguing against what seems to be a prevalent or even majority opinion.)


What HN's net moderation system does (user flags, automated moderation, direct admin-moderator actions, shadowbans, penalties) is limit all extreme views, to the extent that they conflict with HN's Prime Directive, "to optimize for intellectual curiosity": <https://qht.co/item?id=27901918>.

As I've pointed out repeatedly, the net bias created is less left/right than pro status quo: <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...>.

Challenges to conventional thinking are more than fair, but they've got to avoid falling foul of one of HN's guidelines, particularly increasing substantiality with time, thoughtful criticism, generic negativism, not fulminating, no personal attacks, not sneering (including at the rest of the community), good faith, responding to the strongest plausible interpretation of your interlocutor, avoiding flamebait / generic tangents / Internet tropes. And most importantly in this vein, not using HN for political or ideological battle (including nationalistic flamewars).

<https://qht.co/newsguidelines.html>

As to flags: mods do frequently reverse them for both posts and comments: <https://qht.co/item?id=45353896> <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...>.

I don't always agree with mods, but I often do, and even where I disagree, I understand the underlying principles being employed. I've been an active critic / commentator on moderation for much of my time on-site (dating to 2011).


Moderation exists. That's not novel. Do you think it shouldn't?

Exactly, for example, there's often two subreddits which are polarized in opposite directions, which unfortunately doesn't make it any easier to figure out the reality than if it was purely left-wing discourse allowed.

Certainly describes my local city sub.

Different subs have it to different extents. The Texas sub was taken over last year by a left wing mod that made everything not merely a Daily Beast repost machine, but barely about Texas. They were finally removed to the pleasure of pretty much everyone.

Every sub has its far right trolls and agitators, too. Bots that respond automatically to any post with certain keywords in the title will lure accounts that have never posted there before, celebrating heinous things and trying to get a rise out of people. Pathetic attempts at destroying decency by celebrating murders by the government.

You may not notice depending on your perspective.


Looking at the conversations tied to movie fandoms has been fascinating. People treat movie franchises like a religion.

It is essentially religion. Politics too.

[flagged]


It's been saddening seeing people who think they're clever and have it all figured out getting wrapped around the axle about Odyssey for the absolutely most foolish reasons. You act like the casting decision is the downfall of society.

[flagged]


Look how much you need to attack it. All of you. Can't let go because your coping mechanism for reality or your conservative TV host made you feel superior for thinking it. Otherwise I can't imagine what makes a person care so much on their own. Maybe the same kind of context-less logical purity that makes some people libertarian.

I don't really care if someone feels "icky" about non-cis or non-hetero people. That's your personal problem to work out.

My problem is I've never met someone who both ranted about trans people and gives a damn about the corruption of the current administration. I've never seen someone rant about traditional family values and excluding certain groups from society who also supports the rule of law or talks about reforms to improve democracy.

I pity the person who is so enraged about a minor casting decision.

It is so unimportant in comparison to the degradation of government, food and healthcare issues, social media addiction, AI instability. The "gotcha" bitterness about trans people here makes me wonder what values a person actually claims to hold.


If you think that’s bad casting, I’ve got some bad news: the guy who plays the cyclops has two eyes.

This is a great example of the sort of culture-war nonsense that people are here to avoid.

Wait into you see they are all speaking English instead of ancient Greek.

> I used to enjoy reddit back in 2011-2013 when it was all about silly memes and jokes.

Reddit is as it's always been. You just got older and don't get the current silly memes and jokes.


I never said anything about not getting the current memes and jokes.

I was alluding to the current mix of the content on reddit. It has gotten more political and less entertaining if you look at the default feed whether you create an account or browse anonymously.

And in any political or open ended discussion, unless it is scientific, the discussions are shallow.

I will however concede that non-scientific/technical discussions were always shallow.


> It has gotten more political

I think this is also a reflection of the era we live in. In 2011, we weren't facing the same problems we are today.


The world has gotten more political. Everything is going to shit and we have not even really started the climate change.

We have. The heat waves were climate change. The super super super super El Nino ocean temperature anomaly predicted for November is climate change.

Also we killed the Great Barrier Reef.

[flagged]


Right?! Real irony is rare; but here it is.

The politically religious have no perspective of what they’re doing to these places. If you really pin them down, they think it’s everyone else that has changed. Wild.


>> I used to enjoy reddit back in 2011-2013 when it was all about silly memes and jokes.

This was totally me. Advice Animals was my go to when I needed to decompress from being overworked as a developer. Just funny, silly memes, and cool inside jokes you could share with your friends. If you knew some of the inside jokes, you were considered one of the cool kids in your group.

Reddit almost always was first run to the big stories as well, then a few weeks later it show up on FB. Still remember the one day I was telling my GF something I saw on Reddit and she was like, "That was on FB last week" and I knew it was over.

The final coffin was when the political rubes overran AA and turned into a political echo chamber. Post something that wasn't political? Downvoted into oblivion.

That was it, the fun was over, nothing was cool any more so I checked out.


This is not accurate.

I get the jokes. They range from some retarded live stream drama, to some basic bitch puns or otherwise barely novel wordplay, to some thinly veiled political attack that can be thrown and doesn’t need defense because it’s “omg, just a joke, lighten up bro!”.

Think about it this way, everyone should be aware that intelligence has gone down in the last two generations. Reading comprehension has gone down. Terminally online addicts have increased.

So… Why would humor even stay the same on some cleverness scale?


I left Reddit years ago and it’s been an absolute pleasure. I’ve never come close to wishing to participating there again, and everything I hear from people who still hang on seems to reinforce my decision.

How do you think the bots are trained? Reddit has really good data since its comments and tags and specific subreddits basically have ranked questions and answers by points driven by the title and the comments are ranked by points which have quality answers.

"Reddit has really good data"

Depends on what you mean by good. If you want to make a bot that seems like a person, then yes. If you want accurate information, not so good.


Eh, that only works when fleets of bots aren't upboating their own commercial content.

Reddit is must have if you want GEO presence

So leave it alone to the GEO bots and don't use it as a human.

I don't go to reddit for answers.

once they break RedReader ill be out. old.reddit.com is now defunct

What do you mean it's defunct?

I use old.reddit.com all the time.

If old.reddit.com goes, I'm done with reddit.

I might try out some kind of alternative front end from https://github.com/mendel5/alternative-front-ends#reddit though.

But if that's not good enough, I'm done.


It now only works if you're logged in.

Seems to work fine here?

It's on and off for me, it's like they are A/B testing non logged in users.

They are slow-rolling it by IP block.

I assume this is because their largely drooling, double-digit IQ community would revolt if they rolled it out overnight.

Ever seen what a riot in a maximum security prison looks like? Well it would be nothing like that. But there would be lots of complaining and boxed macaroni and cheese involved.


Bastards. I didn't notice.

Welp. I guess most people who are/were using it also had accounts.


Not true, I use Firefox focus to access it, so now I can't

That's news to me, I use old reddit com all the time

those bots are extremely effective at manipulating LLM results via comments and faking entire reddit threads.

at least if you go to reddit, you know the answer came from reddit, and can be accordingly cautious.


How long until advertisement impacts chatgpt answer, I mean not just adding a sponsored link at the end but changing it's answer.

We've seen it with Google, money is too hard to resist. Enshitification is coming !

Thanks god for the open Chinese models, they are the future. All hail the CCP.


Love Google for what it once was, hate it for what it became.

Why care about what Google know about you, in case of domestic abuse ?

It's not like Google is going to sell your tracking data to abuser.

There are many reasons to get rid of Google altogether, I just don't understand this one.


> It's not like Google is going to sell your tracking data to abuser.

No, that's exactly the fear. With enough disclaimers and third parties involved, a motivated, highly intelligent and rich attacker with the right connections could get that information.


Explain how (in comparison to GrapheneOS) please.

Zero Google services ship by default.

I meant - explain how would that data retrieval actually happen in real life for a domestic abuser.

Abuser calls police and says the victim did some crime, police subpoena Google for location history.

How is that different from getting that data from the phone company?

It isn't?

The end result is the same, the abuser gets the location of their victim. More routes for the abuse to get that is worse than fewer ways for them to get it.

Any data collected can be abused. This is like saying why care about what flock knows about you, when it's been used by far too many police to stalk their romantic interests.

Police can obtain data from Google. Police can be abusers or friends with abusers.


So that your abuser cannot obtain real-time information about you via integrated accounts.

You should google 40% of police..

Here's an article explaining why one should care: https://privacypros.com.au/privacy-hub/articles/dv-safe-phon...

The tl;dr is that you can either share this data by accident through some sort of "locate my family" app, or because your abuser gets access to your Google/Apple account (for instance because you're signed in on another device they have access to).

The threat model here can be: domestic abuse victim flees a situation at home in a hurry, stays signed in on a computer. Abuser uses the sign-in on that computer to track their phone, figures out they're staying at their aunt's place.

Yes, you can avoid this on a regular Google phone as well, but that requires correctly configuring it (and a lot, such as location and search history, can be re-enabled remotely!). If you're running Graphene you are protected by default, rather than compromised by default.


Even on grapheneos you got to install the play store and play services to get most app to work, which mean connecting to a Google account.

Technically you can use fdroid, Aurora store, or only use stock applications but if we are serious, not all domestic abuse victims are also geeks that know how to do all these things.

They will need their apps, for instance for social security. Also, many people use their phone to pay nowadays, can't do on grapheneos.

Domestic abuse is a serious threat and people are motivated to stay away from their abusers, but if you give them something so barebone that they can't do 90% of their stuff, a significant percentage of them will revert to their old behavior and risk compromising themselves. For instance, buying a second phone and connecting it to the old Google account just to browse tiktok.


They don't need completely bare-bones setup. Sweet spot for non-geeks is installing play services, which can be used without signing into an account and by default have invasive permissions revoked. Then installing playstore apps from aurora store.

Play store is not a significant privacy risk. It is a huge improvement being sandboxed, not installed by default, not given permissions by default.

Grapheneos has 99.99% app compatibility and over 90% of banking apps are compatible.


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